To the PVE hunter, Focus can seem perfectly fine. It satisfies the costs of a rotation. It requires enough management to be interesting but not enough to be distracting. It can largely be considered a successful class change on Blizzard’s part. But many PVP hunters think otherwise. The official forums are riddled with threads about issues related to hunter PVP and almost ubiquitous among them is the complaint that Focus is fundamentally flawed in PVP. Why is this argued?
Focus is generated in three ways: passive regeneration, cooldowns and gains resulting from successful Steady and Cobra Shots. Cooldowns (Rapid Recuperation, Roar of Recovery and Fervor) are too infrequent and too finite to provide sustaining levels of Focus. The passive regeneration rate (including Thrill of the Hunt, Termination and Invigoration) is far too low to supply anything close to the Focus required for good DPS or meaningful pressure. Basically, Steadies and/or Cobras are necessary for a Focus gain rate that is adequate and sustainable. Consequently, when a hunter is prevented from firing Steady or Cobra Shots, she is prevented from maintaining levels of damage on par with other classes. This is rarely an issue in PVE thanks to Aspect of the Fox; why should PVP be any different?
The answer rests largely in the fact that by having Focus regeneration tied to our shots, our resource gains are hurt by anything that negates, slows or preempts successful shots. Examples include our minimum range, line of sight, and sources of complete mitigation like Ice Block. If a target runs within the min range: reduced to passive regen. If the target runs behind a pillar: reduced to passive regen. If the target pops a bubble: reduced to passive regen.
Additionally troublesome is the fact that Steady and Cobra Shots have cast times. They can be slowed by attack and cast speed increases. They can be seen and thereby preempted. They also perform two checks regarding whether a target meets the criteria of being beyond minimum range and being in line of sight: once at the start of the cast and once at the end of it. This makes pillar skirting and min range humping powerful tactics for denying hunters both shots in the present and the resources to fire other shots in the future. These tactics often combine in the sense that if you chase someone around a pillar to stay in line of sight, you necessarily end up getting closer to them and they can then simply min range hump you instead.
Skilled hunters of course know how to snare, root, kite, stay at range and switch targets to avoid or lessen some of these issues. But skilled enemies know how to use terrain and the hunter’s minimum range to their advantage against hunter limitations. The issue is not that hunters lose all shot-derived Focus regen in PVP; it’s that they lose enough to be at a real disadvantage compared to other classes that have no such issues with their resource system and who can afford to pay for their abilities whenever they are otherwise able to use them. Hunters are not balanced such that they deal more damage when they have Focus to make up for this; they either deal normal damage with Focus or below normal damage when prevented from generating it.
Why doesn’t Blizzard fix this? Blizzard is constrained on a few fronts. The first is the PVP-PVE balance. They can’t buff Focus to alleviate PVP issues without overpowering Focus in PVE where it already works fine. This, to my mind, is the primary stumbling block; Focus is fundamentally problematic in PVP and fundamentally okay in PVE, leaving Blizzard without an easy or simple fix. A second front is that they want to keep Focus interesting. Focus’s gimmick is that it is generated in large part through shots. If they were to make Focus entirely passive it would lose its distinctiveness and indeed become quite boring, like Runic Power without Runes or Energy without Combo Points. This means that Blizzard is very unlikely to make Focus more functional in PVP by simpifying it. A third front is that they just made a massive overhaul to our resource system half a year ago. They’re probably not interested in overhauling it again anytime soon.
Our resource system is simply awkward for PVP, and it leaves hunters in a position where our longtime weaknesses (min range, pillars, etc.) are now hurting us doubly, not just on damage up front like always but also in resources down the line. This is not to say that hunters are utterly helpless. We’re not. Hunters can indeed do well in Arenas and RBGs when played with skill. It is more the case that our resource system places us under an additional handicap: success is not precluded, but more work is required than with other classes in order to achieve it.
-Eidotrope
Thanks for another nice article Eid. I think part of the issue with hunters is comparison with other classes with similar “restrictions”. Over time users of these classes have no doubt complained as hunters are now and as a result got some compensatory talents.
Hunters are unique in that they were the only class whose mechanics were completely changed for Cat. So we are playing catch up in this regard.
As concrete example as well as hunter I also have 85 lock, disc and warrior alts all for PVP use.
> Locks and priests: clearly you need to understand how to use mana efficiently. However this is on an overall fight basis, it isn’t a constant cast by cast issue like it is for us. Further if either class can leave combat they can drink to stock up for several more minutes of fighting and locks have lifetap so will never run short unless close to death.
> Warrior: in theory rage should be like focus. In practice it isn’t. With deadly calm+other class abilities its easy to build up a rage buffer and once you are up and rolling rage isn’t much of a limiter to your main rotation. The main concern is how often to use heroic strike to get rid of excess rage (would that we hunters had that problem….)
I am also leveling a rogue and it will be interesting to see how this compares. Atm (level 66) it feels a bit similar in some respects but different in others. The same is that you do need to be continually conscious of energy, the difference is that taken in conjunction with combo points you seem to get more bangs for your energy bucks being able to line up control and burst more easily than as a hunter.
With time hopefully Blizz will fine tune hunter focus so it becomes less of a restriction. You make a good point about PVE. Focus needs to be a limited resource or we would just end up spamming Aimed Shot or something.
My vote for a solution would be talents/glyphs that give focus for PvP. Say change glyph of freezing trap so that it awards 8 focus for each second that the target is entombed. Or maybe deterrence giving a focus boost.
I like your point that Focus is still in its infancy whereas the resources that we compare it too have had several expansions’ worth of tweaking. Rage has kept receiving changes throughout its lifespan and even recently had a massive normalization change. We probably shouldn’t expect Focus to be much different.
As for the changes to Focus, I think that the fix should rest with where the problems are. Such as Steady Shot’s cast ticing Focus gains across its cast time rather than requiring that the shot fire, land and do damage before the Focus is seen. That way we’d still be penalized by line of sight (no damage), but we could still net some Focus gains from someone who’s pillar skirting.
I like the freezing trap focus idea, but it would need to be balanced to avoid breaking raid bosses with adds. Deterrence wouldn’t really fix our pressure issues- it’s not a frequently used enough ability, and it also prevents us from spending much focus and would result in becoming capped quickly.
Another potential fix would be having a marked player regenerate focus to the hunter that marked them. I know the devs don’t like making abilities that state “player”, but I don’t see many ways around it.
“If they were to make Focus entirely passive it would lose its distinctiveness and indeed become quite boring, like Runic Power without Runes or Energy without Combo Points.”
Uh, focus is exactly like Energy without combo points. It’s only distinctive aspect is that our resource bar is orange-brown.
Just thinking aloud regarding ways to improve hunter PvP vis a vis focus (note: I’m a very casual PvP. A bg or two per week, TB if I ever get in. I just don’t like being angry, which PvP makes me):
* Talents: MM = gives us focus back when we crit on players. BM = get focus when pets crit players. SV = regen X per second focus for every player effected by our traps.
* AotF could give us a huge chunk of focus if a player crits us. It gives focus when we’re hit, why can’t it give more focus if we’re hit really hard?
* Missed shots refund focus cost but cooldown still applies. Really frustrating when someone dodges my Explosive Shot. PvE would be effected.
* Glyph of Tranq Shot: Tranq Shot costs 0 focus. I spam Tranq in bgs as I use it as a quasi mana drain. If I didn’t have to choose between 2 Tranqs and an ExS, I might be able to kill a healer. Even a reduced cost would be welcome.
It isn’t exactly like Energy. Its passive regen rate is much lower and, like Rage for dps warriors, requires landing blows to maintain an adequate gain rate. As such, it’s like a blend of Energy and Rage. I’m not saying that’s very original in itself, just that it is not Energy without Combo Points.
My suggestion would be to;
1. Remove the minimum range on shots or at least reduce it.
2. Make steady and cobra shot an instant cast with a base cooldown of 2 seconds decreased by your haste. (essentially swapping the cast time into a cooldown time)
Or even having this implemented into the pvp set piece bonuses
I REALLY like the suggestion of tying it in with PVP set bonuses. At first thought it seems awesome, but I’m sure there’s a downside to it… I just don’t see it yet.
The best way would be through pvp set bonuses imo. Just as long as they are not ones that give a a definite dps boost or advantage that can be considered over the pve sets for pve.
It would be very tough to buff Focus via PVP gear without it becoming optimal for PVE. Blizzard’s already-existing attempt at this, the 4piece PVP bonus, is so watered down by their concern over imbalance that it’s basically worthless.
I think the developers were on the right track when they included the feature of Aspect of the Fox that “restores 2 focus every time the hunter receives a melee attack.”
What they didn’t account for, though, is:
- Melee attackers aren’t the only ones who hang out in our melee range.
- Our melee range isn’t the only place where a target can stand without our being able to shoot them.
Could AotF add a focus restoration effect to Raptor Strike (or Wing Clip, or some separate new ability)? Surely even with that, it wouldn’t become a part of our PvE rotation. However, it wouldn’t solve the LoS/range/immunity issues either.
What about a channeled ability that simply restores focus over time (like Evocation but without the healing or cooldown components)? It would have to be balanced not to be worth using over Steady/Cobra Shot for maximum DPS.
Ideally, I think there should be some ability that makes casters and healers not -always- want to be in our melee range. Something like a short-cooldown melee-range interrupt/silence would probably be enough to make other ranged classes actually want to be at range against us.
I could also imagine a “Flush Out”-type ability for our pets (put it in the ferocity tree?), or maybe some Kill Command-like pet attack equivalent to Steady Shot that would allow us to command our pets to regenerate focus for us – something we could use when our target is out of LoS.
Obviously all these combined would be way OP, but I would be surprised if the development team hasn’t at least considered trying one or two of these kinds of things to help hunters’ very difficult situation in Cataclysm PvP.
I think you’re right to note that there’s no metagame to hunters, no penalties for just camping out in our minimum range, dispelling us, training us, etc., as there are for other classes. What I’d worry about among your suggestions, though, is that we already have an absurd number of abilities to manage. I’d like to cut some before adding others.
Amen, no more additional abilities! Hunters need to tweeked and streamlined.
a melle range knockback
I have written the following suggestions in the forums (some deleted because I dared to mention that the top 1% of hunters are even saying we are weak apparently any post that uses GC’s words gets deleted- no joke). I recommended passive regen of a base 8 and the gearing shots giving 2.5-3 focus. This will have a neutral effect on PVE while giving hunters adequate opportunity.
I have also recommended adding a knockback 20/40% and equal crit chance on a re-incorporated Tier1 2 point talent of Savage Strikes and removal of counterattack. In the game’s current form a root does nothing. If they won’t rebalance focus I recommend Wing Clip gives 8 focus per hit.
I disagree. I fully support the direction that blizzard are taking to pretty much remove melee from hunters. I wouldnt want do to anything that would move in the opposite direction.
2009 GC said, “What should a hunter do in melée range? Melée Disengage?”. With all the gap closers I no longer believe in a Disengage model. I prefer to be more Ranger like and jousting like I was in Vanilla. What ever happened to “a single powerful ” melée attack? Still waiting for 2 years now.
When I fight mages I am the only class they blink AT and not AWAY.
I actually think there’s a simple and elegant solution to this problem.
Simple: remove the cast time from Steady Shot and Cobra Shot, and make them instant cast shots.
What this resolves:
Removes the double-check for target LOS at beginning and end of cast.
Removes the problem of reduced focus regen due to attack speed and cast speed debuffs
Yes, this involves a reworking of hunter DPS to some degree, since we’d get off a few more SS or CS with an instant cast, so the DPS and focus generated by each shot would need to be lowered a little to compensate. Other than that, this would be a pretty straightforward fix.
Other proposals I see here are interesting, and might be used to complement the instant shot fix if needed. Giving a focus regen component to Wing Clip seems like a good option, in particular, since it’s really not used in raids at all and wouldn’t affect PVE dps.
What do you think?
Instant SS/CS? Non starter. This would be a massive change and have a huge impact on PVE.
“2. Make steady and cobra shot an instant cast with a base cooldown of 2 seconds decreased by your haste. (essentially swapping the cast time into a cooldown time)”
my suggesttion would mean there wold no rebalancing needed
would be*
I personaly love the idea about having our cobra and steady shot ‘drip feed’ us our focus while they are casting, like a focus DOT, so if that crafty Mage jumps behind a pillar just before we manage to squeeze our cs/ss off, we still get 80-90% of the focus for having casted most of the shot. I can imagine this would ‘feel’ right in terms of the flavour of the hunter class, as well as in the terms of playing it mechanically. Additionally, perhaps a talent in the cunning pet tree which gives our pets an ability that works the same as our ss/cs, perhaps on a shared cooldown with our own ss/cs to balance focus gains?
With this idea the hunter would actually get 100% of the Focus from the initiated-but-then-LoS’d Steady or Cobra since the shot would not cancel until the check at the very end of the cast.
It would also have the consequence of allowing us to gain Focus on targets with immunities.
When I thought of it I was trying to come up with something very low impact, something that could actually be patched in mid-expansion. I think it fits that bill.
I also like this idea. The remaining issues would still be the incredible disadvantage of physical and cast speed debuffs that aren’t such a big deal to other classes, and no way to regen focus in melee range. If we could supplement the “drip feed” solution with melee focus regen (gain focus from wing clip or raptor strike), and perhaps make hunters affected by only the physical attack speed debuff and not the cast speed (since supposedly we’re not casters), then I think the focus problem would be resolved.
heat seeking scope would be handy xD
I have been playing as Beast Master in both arenas and bgs, and it has some great perks to help hunters out. Firstly, you get 5 focus every time you receive a melee attack in Fox aspect. Also, your main attack is Kill command, which you can use as long as your pet is on target and you aren’t silenced. It works around LOS corners, you can use it while deterrenced, and when the enemy is at low health but in your face.
If you take the two talents and the glyph to reduce the cd of disengage it brings it down to 15 seconds, and if you are being blown up by a warrior it can go as low as 7-8 seconds with crouching tiger hidden chimera.
The BEST part of BM pvp is bestial wrath which functions just like a pvp trinket (beware can’t use while silenced) and sends you into a killing rage!
How about roll together steady and cobra shot with the properties of the aspects?
Turn steady and cobra into pure focus regen with no dmg that can be cast off the CD. During the cast time, you can still fire all instant shots, but for reduced damage.
Bonus points: during the cast time, shots have no minimum range requirement.
This can bring hunters back to being truly skill=damage as you would have to minimize shots fired in during casts to maximize damage.