Comments on: Hunting Deathbringer Saurfang!

By: Alar

Alar — Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:59:04 +0000

I tried slightly respecing for this on 25man to get improved traps for the 4 sec mobs cant move, really really not worth it, only seems to affect the inital beast that triggers it and it doesnt always seem to work

By: Kataron

Kataron — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 06:44:19 +0000

Posting because it’s at thirty-nine comments and I want it to be at forty because it’s a nice even number divisible by both two and five….

Don’t judge me.

By: brandon

brandon — Sun, 03 Jan 2010 18:37:20 +0000

Zeherah made a great statement saying dps should “cross attack” meaning dps on the left would pull the right add, and dps on the right would pull the left add. This saves you from being meele attacked from the blood beats becuase it takes more time for the blood beast’s to walk over the opposite direction then running just straight. Also if you do this method drop a frost trap, roughly in the middle or a little bit infront of you and then when there out use a concussive shot, then feign death. Why feign death? Beacuse at this point you should have the most agro on them, while another Hunter distracion shots them! if that hunter is on the opposite side of you, the blood beast has to walk all the way back towards them and before it even turns around it should be dead!

By: Okashii

Okashii — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 23:37:45 +0000

true, i meant the 10-man lol =). My guild hasnt cleared on 25-man due to a crippling lack of healers >_>. WTB more healers, pst.

By: Zeherah

Zeherah — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:30:07 +0000

If lust shortens the fight because you get more total dps on the boss (which you should if you pop it before your ranged are swapping off to kill the adds) then you spend less of the fight with marks and can potentially chop off a mark at the end of the fight. It doesn’t delay the first mark but it can certainly affect whether you get the last one. On 10 man we often don’t get any marks at all in a geared group.

By: Nagrenol

Nagrenol — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:39:35 +0000

We have 2/3 hunters and we never really kite any of them unless on breaks lose or such and isnt being nuked down enough.
We run in b4 they spawn drop traps.. 1 on left and right.. 1 in middle if we have 3 in raid. When they spawn we all this nuke em dont fast and thats it. No real kiting ive found in all teh times we’ve done it. However im sure that will change on hrc version 25.

By: jurgwena

jurgwena — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:21:36 +0000

lust should really be used at the discretion of the healers, but since no one cares about healers, i say save it for the melee

By: jurgwena

jurgwena — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:19:52 +0000

but lust doesn’t change how many marks you get, as you mentioned, it merely gets you to the decision point quicker. the fight is still about execution. obviously this whole debate is fairly academic until the hard mode is avail, I just feel like the lust should be saved for execute range so the melee can go buck wild.

By: Zeherah

Zeherah — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 19:01:30 +0000

The ranged don’t do much dps on this fight because they spend a good deal of the fight kiting the adds. But the adds don’t spawn that early in the fight, so if you pop lust early enough the ranged can have full dps time on the boss for a good chunk of the heroism, which can shorten the fight noticably. It really depends on your raid situation though- lust will get you to the enrage faster, but if it cuts down the number of marks on your raid by one, it will make the fight easier.

By: jurgwena

jurgwena — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 17:34:45 +0000

the ranged dps don’t do much damage on this fight anyway, lusting for them to get some extra hits in is pretty useless. Our saurfang meter has 1 ranged dps in the top 10 every time.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 14:24:31 +0000

Thanks for these insights Zeherah! I actually avoided the whole issue of which beast to attack because we don’t have a good strategy for assigning targets and not overlapping. As for the heroism/bloodlust issue, we pop it more for the healers than the DPS. When he enrages, the raid damage takes a fairly large spike, and we often have at least one marked person we can’t afford to let die. Also, the way we reason it, heroism before the enrage gets us to the enrage faster, but heroism after the enrage gets us through it faster. While I suspect that the net fight time would be the same for each situation, using heroism after the enrage means we’re less likely to wipe due to heals being overwhelmed.

By: Zeherah

Zeherah — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 00:47:20 +0000

There are many ways to do this fight, but one key I didn’t see mentioned here is that the ranged dps should cross attack. People on the left should attack the bloodbeasts that spawn on the right first and vice versa. Not only does this give you more time to kill them, but it means they stay in range of the other side longer in case they finish theirs first, and if traps are laid on the left or right side of the stairs they’ll still have to travel through them regardless of who they’re going after. I always prelay my trap several seconds before the beasts spawn.

I generally don’t use disengage unless things go drastically wrong since typically I don’t need it. Sometimes I’ll use concussion shot if I don’t think I can kill the add before it’ll reach me. I save distracting shot in case there’s a problem elsewhere. The fight is definitely far better as SV but sometimes I’m needed to run as MM (since our DKs are unholy and our enhance shaman often goes ele for the knockback) so I’m used to doing it both ways. Also keep in mind that if you’re backing up to kite an add, try to do it on top of one other person instead of between two people, it reduces the chance of blood nova chaining to too many people.

If you are doing this fight on 10 with 3 healers, you may want to consider switching to 2 if you have a healer who can do ranged dps. Since the damage on the raid on this fight ramps up considerably the longer the fight goes on, having one additional dps can avoid having barely any marks, thus speeding up the fight and keeping the raid healthy. The healer can always help heal after the first mark goes out if needed.

Also my groups have started using heroism at the beginning of the fight (right after the first tank swap usually) instead of the end. The reasoning for this is that the ranged dps can usually make use of a large portion of the heroism if you pop it early, whereas if you wait till later in the fight they’ll be busy kiting and won’t have as much time to help with the dps on the boss. So by using it early you can speed up the fight and cut down the amount of time spent in the most dangerous part of it.

By: Kataron

Kataron — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 21:27:44 +0000

We’ve tried the holy pally with righteous fury, which works out fine at the beginning, but near the end the other healers are putting out a butt-ton of aggro as well, and it got to the point that the one pally wasn’t enough.

We actually positioned all our healers at the same point to bring aggro exactly where we wanted it, and as soon as we tried that we had the boss down first shot with that strategy.

By: holyhandgrenade

holyhandgrenade — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:28:02 +0000

One of the easiest ways to deal with the adds requires a holy pally. Start the fight as you normally would. The pally after about 15 sec of tanks getting aggro activates righteous fury and keeps healing as normal. When the adds spawn they will have one target in mind. that holy pally, who can easily kite them and if all hell breaks loose can take a few hits.

By: eidotrope

eidotrope — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:25:35 +0000

Yes, I think hunter ping-ponging is a good way to go too. I like to have a warlock or a hunter in each pair of dps per blood beast (when that strat is used).

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 20:22:11 +0000

A frost trap does not cause the internal cooldown on lock and load, so the way I do it often allows for two lock and loads during the beast phase. Explosive trap is another option for 25s, however I suspect that the fairly frequent double lock and load would be better overall because it allows you to focus your damage more.

By: wookieeb

wookieeb — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:57:08 +0000

Depending on the raid makeup, pairing a hunter with other non-hunter ranged DPS makes killing the beasts pretty easy. Hunter pulls Beast with Distracting Shot initially. Using Frost Trap, Concussive Shot, and Disengage will usually allow the hunter to remain at range from the Beast for some time. But if for some reason the Beast does get close, hunter Feign Death is a saviour. FD, Beast drops aggro on hunter and heads towards other ranged DPS. Should buy you enough time to finish it off, but another distracting shot will often pull it back if needed.

By: Moongaze

Moongaze — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:49:42 +0000

I’m surprised no one mentioned Explosive trap. I experimented a bit with it in 25 man and checked recount towards the other survival hunter (who used black arrow on the boss at all times). His black arrow did 50k damage, while my trap alone did 350k.

Also, not using black arrow on the boss ensures you get a LNL proc when the beast spawns, which is of much more importance.

Simply run halfways up the stairs (we have hunters assigned to the middle area) and double trap when beasts are 5-6 secs from spawning and they will all get slowed and fire ticked.

By: wookieeb

wookieeb — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:48:56 +0000

This is generally a good idea. I only have done this on 10-man, where we usually tank Saurfang just at the top of his steps. Before the Blood Beasts spawn, I place a frost trap on or very near the steps. As soon as the Beasts spawn, I will pull one with Distracting Shot, which will hopefully get its attention and pull it across the frost trap. If the trap was placed well enough, when it triggers it will often catch both Beasts, thus helping the other side with their Beast as well. An additional benefit is that we will have one of the melee DPS quickly come off of Saurfang and beat down the Beasts as they are still relatively close to the steps and moving slowly.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:18:31 +0000

I have used that as well, but since distracting shot’s cooldown is fairly short, I like the comfort of knowing that nothing short of another taunt can pull the mob away- if nobody makes mistakes, then your method works, however if anyone does, my method can often cover for it.

By: Bozanimal

Bozanimal — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:04:12 +0000

Great entry! Only one thing I would change, and that would be to open with Explosive Shot. This is typically generating enough aggro that you don’t need Distracting Shot, and you can save the Distracting Shot cooldown to pull a Beast off another player at range once you’ve killed your assignment.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:02:33 +0000

Also, pets not in melee can be targeted by blood nova which could clip you while kiting. In my guild, for a while, we had one of the pally healers deliberately gain healing agro which led all beasts through a trap, and we would taunt and single target them before they got there.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 15:00:29 +0000

I heard this had been fixed already. In any case, I wouldn’t suggest using it if there’s any risk Blizzard would consider it a exploit.

By: Bozanimal

Bozanimal — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:46:35 +0000

This is a pretty neat idea, but you’re probably gimping your raid by having the pet hang out back there. My wolf does over 1,000 DPS as Survival, buffed with pet food and hitting Kill Command every cooldown. Since this fight is part DPS race and part add and position management, your pet will probably be more valuable on Saurfang.

By: Bozanimal

Bozanimal — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:39:28 +0000

Blood Beasts hitting snakes WILL trigger Blood Power, so DO NOT USE!

By: Mightymuffin

Mightymuffin — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:33:38 +0000

This guy was the hardest fight for my guild when we were trying to come up with a strat. We don’t have a huge mix of classes, with three paladins playing 3 different roles, so we had to think uniquely about what to do. What our group decided first was for the druid to CC the right mob, and dps focus fire the left (this is on 10 man where there are 2 beasts). I would make sure my shots pulled threat on the left one and would walk over my traps (which I laid after every blood beast spawn). I used snake traps, although it hasn’t done much so will probably drop that and just use frost trap. The dps would always get the first down, and when switching to the second, I waited to dps until it was moving into the frost field, then I’d start and shoot distracting shot to get the guy to come to me. There were a couple of times this didn’t work, either due to timing or mobs attacking melee, and I used distracting shot to pull them to me.

Ever since I introduced distracting shot to our guilds strategy, they have missed me since I’ve been home for holidays and unable to play. Its nice when distracting shot gets a chance to be used again.

By: Kataron

Kataron — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 07:37:49 +0000

I finally got this guy down tonight, both in 25 and 10! Mind you, the only reason I didn’t have it down in 10 before is because I’d run it once with a fail group that I was surprised even got up to that boss.

But still, yay.

We found that tanking him around the stairs and having the healers all stand where the platform juts out to meet the boat, that worked really well. The healers make a shit-ton of aggro which got all the beasts going right for them, focus fire them down, distracting shot any that got up to the actual healers, leave frost traps between healers and boss, and keep a mage on either side to frost nova when convenient.

Got him down and got the achievement for however many marks going out. Yay!

Nothing great dropped, tier tokens that weren’t for hunters, and a one-hander that my other hunter buddy picked up, but I have the Quel’Delar.

By: Tomiko

Tomiko — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 04:41:16 +0000

You can knock the bloodbeasts off the ledge with an ele shaman or druid using their knockback abilities, thereby not having to worry about the beasts at all. This will most likely get fixed very soon.

By: Ado

Ado — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:47:23 +0000

We find that a lock dropping shadow fury on the beasts as they spawn gives the kiters a nice chance to pick up assigned targets. The stun also allows us to have melee keep doing their thing and only worry about tank AOE on the spawn. The AOE damage reduction means the kiter is ahead on threat but every bit of damage counts. On 10man we also cross pull the adds through a handy frost trap and I tend to get my assigned add down without having to move most of the time.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:47:58 +0000

On 10s, that sounds like a good strategy- there’s 2 tanks and 2 beasts. On 25, however, there’s 5 beasts. The tank taunt could still be a good ace in the hole, but I wouldn’t want to rely on it.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:44:51 +0000

I think I remember hearing that pets are subject to all the same rules we are, so I generally leave my pet on the boss, and I would hesitate to test this with a snake trap. Imagine if he cast a blood nova on one of them…

By: Jonker (Zul'Jin)

Jonker (Zul'Jin) — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 13:19:42 +0000

For 10 man, the easiest way I found was for me to set up show in the upper left hand side closest to the stage. I would drop a trap at the center of the stairs and when the two spawn, the DPS focus on the left one first(closest to me). We burn him down pretty quick and if the 1st is not dead aouns 15% life left, I shoot distracting to the other (right one), kiting it back over the frost trap, in essence “double-dipping” the same frost trap.

I guess it depends on the level of your DPS, but our “A-Team” normal has a loc, Hunter and mage on adds and we put DPS shammy, rogue and other hunter on Boss at all times…again, we can clear the two spawns with 3 guys (and an awesome hunter kiting), which REALLY takes Saurfang down VERY quickly, especially during the soft enrage.

By: Okashii

Okashii — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:28:36 +0000

One thing my guild did that worked fantastically well was have the tanks taunt the beasts back to them when they were getting close to the kiters (me and a mage), so we could just stand there and pewpew with little/no worries. ended up with a 2-shot on the Deathbringer (and a sweet ass new ring for me ^_^). Try it out if you like =).

-Okashii, Vek’nilash US

By: Brant

Brant — Wed, 30 Dec 2009 02:41:30 +0000

When I did this on ten man, me and another hunter misdirected the blood beasts onto his pet parked at the back where you get off the boat. After running through frost traps they usually died just before getting there. Also, I’m not sure if catching the pet would have the same effect as a player, anyone know?

By: eidotrope

eidotrope — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:53:09 +0000

I guess what I was wondering is if the Blood Beasts ever transfer Blood Power to Saurfang by attacking the snakes.

By: Lyraat

Lyraat — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:33:56 +0000

I dont know if they spring the trap if the trap is right underneath them when the spawn. They do spring the trap if they walk (slither?) over it. Seeing Saurfang with a bunch of snake debuffs is fun :D

By: eidotrope

eidotrope — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:12:21 +0000

I was wondering about snake traps. If the Blood Beasts spawn right on the snake traps, do they ever end up hitting the snakes?

By: Lyraat

Lyraat — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 22:23:22 +0000

I like dropping a frost and a snake trap at the bottom of the stairs. The snakes dont do much, but, hey, damage is damage and if the blood beast gets slowed by one, so much the better. BA goes on boss; no explosive or immo trap.

For 25′s, we have 2 dps per blood beast. For 10′s, we have 1 per with a third watching as a backup.

By: Eidotrope

Eidotrope — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:03:11 +0000

Oh, okay. My raid has hunters create a wide swamp of frost traps in front of Saurfang for people to kite Blood Beasts through; I guess that might explain why we do things differently.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:50:31 +0000

I plant the trap where my stand still DPS spot is, and back away once I start kiting. The longer we can keep the beast’s attention without getting hit while standing still, the faster they go down. As soon as it’s in the trap, I disengage once and then only start strafing when it’s close again, although in practice, usually my beast is dead by that point and I can use my new position to help one of the other kiters.

By: Eidotrope

Eidotrope — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 17:43:39 +0000

Thanks for posting this.

Blood Beasts always seem to spawn in the same five point star configuration. That means that ranged dps can be assigned targets just by where around Saurfang the blood beasts appear.

I see a lot of hunters just walking backwards until they hit a wall and waiting until the Blood Beast is within melee range to start running. I would say that if you don’t know for sure that you’ll kill the blood beast before it gets to where you’re standing, always be strafing. Because we’re be moving a lot, a runspeed enchant like Tuskarr’s Vitality or Cat’s Swiftness is helpful.

I like planting a frost trap a bit before the spawn and then running back to my position. That saves Disengage for kiting blunders or for just moving closer to a blood beast that’s eating somebody on the far side of the platform.