This is an opinion piece and is not an official OutDPS! position.
Are we obligated to do min-maxed dps? We may want to for any number of reasons, but is there also a moral impetus?
Let’s begin with a definition. Min-maxing our damage involves lopsided gameplay. You make the things that get in the way of your dps or the things that take resources away from it as small as possible. On the other hand, you also maximize the things that help your dps, prioritizing those things that help the most.
Also, let’s lay out some premises. We’re moral agents: we do dps and are aware that we do it. Therefore, we are responsible for our own dps. We also do our work in a social context: in raids we perform a role that depends on other roles and that other roles depend on. Therefore, we are responsible to others, just as others are responsible to us.
Does this responsibility for ourselves and to others at all contribute to an obligation to min-max our performance? I define an obligation as a directive to behavior willfully undertaken (like a contract).
We may have some specific obligations to do min-maxed dps. When we join a guild, our consent to its rules is implied if not overtly given. If a guild has a rule requiring min-maxing then we are obliged to perform it in relevant guild settings. This is because there is the tacit contract where required behavior is exchanged for access to group benefits (like boss loot, a guild bank, etc.). This constitutes an obligation.
Yet, are there any imperatives for min-maxing that exist regardless of raid rules? That is, should we min-max even if we aren’t in a guild setting? If we’re in a raid pug or cross-server heroic? We may say that a tacit contract exists in any group setting, suggesting obligation. By consenting to be part of a group, we are all operating under the assumption that each other member will do their job. We are therefore consenting to contribute our dps so long as others contribute their skills. We communicate this willingness to others by the mere act of joining the group. Obligation derives from this expression of commitment, whether we like it or not.
Yet, this obligation relates to adequately performing a job, not necessarily min-maxing. Absent specific rules, it initially appears that we are obliged to do no more than our share of what is necessary to down the boss. The issue, I think, is knowing what is necessary dps, knowing this minimum standard. Put more broadly, we need to be concerned with our level of uncertainty.
What can uncertainty arise from? You may be on a progression boss and you don’t know what it takes to down it. You may be raiding with new people, and so you may not be sure how much work you will have to put in. Keep in mind that high levels of certainty in some areas will compensate for low levels in others: not knowing anyone in your random heroic is compensated for by the fact that you know the heroic’s bosses are easy.
All of these causes of uncertainty (and others) will lead a known adequate value of dps to be instead a range of possibly adequate values of dps. It might be the case that 3k is enough or that 6k is enough as your share, you don’t know. But because you must do your best to ensure that you job if performed adequately regardless, you have to put out 6k when that value is a reasonable expectation for adequate dps. The greater the uncertainty about the encounter, the more likely it is that your min-maxed dps will be within the threshold of possibility for required dps. Thus, the greater the uncertainty, the more likely you will be obliged to min-max in order to ensure your shared of the dps is performed adequately.
There are then two possible causes for min-maxing that exist in any group setting: a known need or requirement for maximized damage and high levels of uncertainty. In either of the two cases, by participating in the group you are obliged to min-max.
What happens if others break the tacit contract? If others are not performing their jobs adequately, are you still required to do yours? The answer is no. However, you may still want to. Even if others are not performing their jobs, you will still have other incentives to put effort into bringing the boss down: guild rules, loot, emblems, showing off, setting a good example, enjoyment of doing dps, etc.
-Eidotrope
Euripides
jurgwena
lemli
eidotrope
pherra
femaledwarf
your last point is interesting about if others are not holding up their end of the deal, whether we are still obligated to. I guess we could all just say X person isnt cutting the mustard so drop them. If they are not removed, everyone will be slacking and that is bound for failure.
I view my “contract” as being to the run and or everyone, not just a single person. I know for myself, and maybe it matters since i am a guild leader/raid leader, there is a certain amount that i know i can cover another person or persons deficiencies whether they are intentionally slacking or just undergeared, by myself min maxing. I know i will never be standing in fires, getting charged by icehowl, etc. There is a selfish side of it as well where i like coming into a raid that has wiped repeatedly on a boss just for it to be downed the first time once im there.
So i guess what i am saying, is a single person can change a runs attitude so it may be worth going full bore at all times. There does have to be a limit though right, where too much is just too much?!
I think your point about who the contract is with is a very good one. I chose to describe it as with other individuals in the post as a general description, but it might make more sense to have it with the group since hunters are dps. Our role in a group is sort of like what economists call a public good: if we provide it to one person, we do/must provide it to all persons. Since our services are group-wide in this sense (either everyone benefits from our dps or no one does), it might make more sense to view our contract as with the group. Our base obligation to provide dps would then be contingent upon the group working, not on individuals working.
I always pew pew to the best of my abilities, even if, say, a mage frost novas all the blood beasts in the melee on an otherwise perfect Saurfang attempt in which a rogue managed to vanish when targetted by the mark of the fallen champion and it looks like we’ll finally get a kill on the bastard.
I feel that if others continue to fail to perform this contract, they will eventually be killed by lightning or kicked out of the raid. And when they do, they’ll remember who performed the job right.
As for the cross-server thing, I never pull out all the stops for the daily random. No real need to, I feel. I never get any competition in them anyway. ‘cept a Dk, once, with that ilevel 264 axe. They beat me, but not by much.
Yeah, that’s another thing I leave out of the equation that maybe I shouldn’t have. Groups and raids have leaders, which can take the decision about when the contract is broken out of our hands. Thanks.
This topic is being discussed a lot around many forums and blogs. The LFG tool has made getting groups so pathetically easy that a whole new group of people is jumping in with both feet. This is good in some ways, and bad in others. When on my druid and queing up as a tank I get groups instantly. Healers experience something similar, while dps often have a few minute wait, which is still much better then spamming trade for 30 minutes when you could have been farming something.
The problem that arises is as always there is far more dps (under geared and otherwise) than there are tanks and heals. The discussion here about random pugs is that it seems way to often there is at least one dps that doesn’t pull his weight because of gear/bad rotations/not knowing class/pure laziness. This causes the tanks and healers undue stress, but usually doesn’t negatively affect the ability of the group to run a heroic since often you have one dps that is so good that it doesn’t even matter what the other two do. On the other hand if the tank or heals are not up to the increase stress, they are labeled as “fail”, and must be replaced.
The down fall of the whole thing will be when the majority of raiding tanks, healers, and dps no longer feel the need to farm the badges with the LFG tool anymore, and there will be mostly non-raid geared people in there. That’s when the whole group is going to have to stick to that contract and actually work a bit harder to accomplish the goal of the group. The problem then will be it will be either people who are not used to min/maxing, or alts of raiders. The alt people will not be happy when others are not doing what they consider normal, and this is where the bad feelings arise.
As far as raiding, it’s ridiculous to even think about doing harder raids with out min/maxing. ToC is an exception, my guild runs an alt raid of that where we just bring in whatever and clear the whole thing and none of us are fully enchanted or geared for it. ToC has spoiled a lot of people that never raided before, and took a lot of fun out of the game in trying get your toon to do the best performance possible. My hunter still has a green or two, very few enchants, and a couple of blue pvp crafted items and he has the achievement for ToC 10. Yet, I wouldn’t take him into Ulduar or Icecrown because I respect the people I raid with too much to force them to carry me when I obviously have not put in the time on that toon to make him as good as possible. I’m still using BM spec for goodness sakes.
I like your point that it sometimes doesn’t really matter if there’s a contract or not in heroics, given how easy it is to compensate for undergeared dps. I think it might be best to say that while a tacit agreement may exist in group settings, other concerns will often override it to the extent that it’s basically a non-factor.
showing off
My guild is lucky enough to have more awesomely talented people than raid spots, so simply letting supply and demand dictate who gets to come tends to make everyone min/max their performance. That said, I’ve been in guilds where we had to pug people for our 25s, and in that situation, while I am guaranteed a raid spot, I do my best because I know that I need to be able to carry some dead weight if I want to see the end of the dungeon.
The moral obligation of raiding, however, comes in when we’re looking at things like whether to use expensive agility food and pots. I would say that all raiders have a moral obligation to not rely on the increased performance of others who do use these expensive consumables without sharing the cost and using them themselves.
I think when it comes down to it, this is a game, and people have to decide for themselves what they want out of the game, and group/raid/guild leaders do have a right to make policies when creating their groups.
There are many casual players out there that have no interest in spending a lot of additional time and effort learning how to play well. They just want to have fun, sometimes they want to figure out for themselves what works, and that’s really their right. Some people even gear based strictly on aesthetic reasons and not practical ones. When creating a group you can choose whether to have a policy to not bring folks like this into your groups, but depending on the content you’re doing it often won’t severely hurt your chances.
When doing LFG groups, you will meet lots of these people, but as much as there is an implied contract when they join the group to make an effort (one of the reasons why there is a vote kick feature) there is also a certain ridiculousness in freaking out over someone’s performance if the content is going smoothly in spite of it. I was in a group today where there was a ret paladin doing 800dps using a 1h weapon and shield. Everything died quickly so it really didn’t matter, but the group healer kept spamming the dps meter at him and making him feel bad. In my opinon there’s also a moral imperative that if you have an objection to someone’s performance you should offer constructive criticism before transitioning to a stage of outright rudeness. Sometimes folk won’t learn, but trying to help someone is far better for the common good than just telling someone they’re terrible. People should also keep in mind that heroics are meant to be a place to have fun and gear up and not everyone in them will already be an overgeared expert in their class.
That being said, if you are in a progression guild which expects performance of players, or if you join a PUG raid that has specifically requested experience and performance when recruiting, you do have an imperative to represent your skills and commitment with a reasonable level of accuracy and to make an effort to improve where you can.
Anytime you group with people you have an effect on how good a time everyone else has and how well things go. This doesn’t just apply to skill and boss research but also things like inopportune afks, paying attention to assignments, being considerate to the other people in the raid, etc. This social contract in my opinion is at least as important in my opinion as that of min-maxing.
Min/Max is fine up to a point.
Could I increase my own personal dps if i droped replenishment – Yes
Would it benefit the raid overall – No
Would JC/BS be a better combo than Enchanting/LW – Yes
Would I stay in/join a guild who expected me to respec – No
Am i going to pop a Mana pot in a heroic – when
hell freezes over
Heroics don’t need a min/max mentality. Also, binging raid utility at the cost of a little personal DPS is a part of the min/max mentality, in my opinion.