Also, at least on regular, a paladin’s judgment of light should be enough to counter the leeching swarm, so all your healers need to worry about is the debuff and the tanks.

Haste is one of the worst scaling stats for hunters, most hunters get just 0.6dps per haste point. The pot is worth 0.6*500= 300dps for 15s… or just 150dps in Viper.

By Shandara’s spreadsheet, Viper would regen 780 mps unhasted, 813mps when manually adding 500 haste to my gear.

It would take 5.29s of hasted Viper to equal a runic mana pot.

(5.29s * 3150dps + 9.71s * 6300dps) / 15 = 5189dps

-vs-

using a mana pot and staying at 6000dps. It is not even close.

Second, I will prove that if you don’t have a mana pot, you’re still better off using the haste pot after you regen UNHASTED in Viper.

You estimate that you’ll need exactly 1 mana pot until the boss is dead but forgot to hit up the AH before the raid.

Unhasted viper time to regen @ 780mps = 4300/780 = 5.51s
Hasted viper time to regen @ 813mps = 4300/813 = 5.29s (thx Shandara)

You save .22 seconds of Viper time by using the haste. You essentially lose 150dps for 5.29s of hasted Hawk to gain just 0.22s of +3000 dps. Using the haste pot after regen is better by only a total of 122 dmg (with these dps assumptions) but the principle holds.

This point is a corollary to fundamental max dps principles – stack dps buffs together, avoid using buffs to offset debuffs or periods of low dps.

To conclude – don’t be a huntard, never use haste pots in Viper!

I think wild magic would be interesting to use with rapid fire on but as ZobbL said you get a stupidly high crit rate with raid buffs its probably not worth it.

I never thought of the wild magic pot…I might start playing with those on non viper fights.

I use the Speed pot. I also do not use it during heroism or rapid fire. The reason isn’t about haste caps or CDs. It’s because most fights have some movement. If I put all my eggs in one haste window and it gets screwed by some movement then it’s a loss. So I hedge it by doing rapid after heroism and speed after rapid.

It also doesn’t hurt that speed pots are only about 3.5g.

In short, the randomness of certain buffs do not negate their value, or else we’d all only stack AP and haste.

I’m an engineer as well… if you make mana injectors, you get mixology boost AND the extra mana from the injector.

looking for the math & statistics you’ll see, that in short fights its very luck dependent whether you crit or not (for example 15secs). for long durations, as i said, its of course significant more dmg.

… [censored] it ^^
both, yours and mine, point of views make sense to me ;)
maybe i just got some mistakes in my thinking concerning the statistics and the breakdown on one shot …

i would really appreciate an example of calculation. no expectation of your side, but just a hint where i can find a simple calculation to clarify. thanks in advance ;)

The reason is that except for BM, almost no hunters are at the soft haste cap. So by using any one of these three effects, you reach the soft haste cap and your steady shot casts faster (and you get more auto shots). But if you double up on these, you get the faster auto shot, but you’re still at the soft haste cap – so your net gain is less than using them separately.

Best to use each effect separately, getting the full advantage to your steady shot from each effect.

In other words: using heroism, rapid fire, and/or speed potion all at the same time doesn’t give you more damage than using them all separately. The auto shot advantage is the same, but you lose damage from capping your steady shot for longer.

Wild Magic though, definitely during rapid or heroism.

I seem to get quite a few procs when I rapid fire ones it procs it tends too keep proccing others then hit readyness and wait for a quickshots to come off hit rapidfire again and hope for more continuous procs then pop a speed when I hit the quickshot drought again

I am not completely sure what happens when you pop haste pots during RF, but I do remember reading on EJ that it wasn’t the best idea, however no explanation was offered as to why. Once I get better at simulationcraft, I’ll have a better answer for you.

Hmmm Wild Magic, huh? I’ll have to check that out.