Comments on: Survival Spec and Glyphs for Patch 3.2!

By: Ophirra

Ophirra — Mon, 29 Mar 2010 14:13:58 +0000

Can you take a SS of the best survival spec yall have found and post it here? I am usually solo or in 5 mans so mana is important to me…

By: Tinliin

Tinliin — Wed, 24 Mar 2010 06:20:58 +0000

Yes, with 2T9 bonus, Serpent Sting becomes very efficient and the glyph can only make it better. No doubt about this.

In fact, I am kinda confused now about my DPS, after I have abandoned 2T9… Last Wednesday I have farmed Ashen rep and finally got revered and the recipe for Ashen pants. I have crafted them and put aside T9,2 pants, remaining only with the T9 gloves. Next day was ICC10 raiding day and when we got to Saurfang and his BB, I had the surprise to see that my DPS is about 5700-5900, while the week before it was above 6000.

Now, I am not sure this drop was because I didnt had those SrS crits anymore, or because I have fought my BB almost alone, the ShPriest on my side being unable to use his offspec too well. Will see what the next fight will tell…

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 18:09:57 +0000

I need to redo the post a little, but for me, my single target DPS is higher with the serpent sting glyph than the alternatives. Especially when you have improved stings and the 2t9. On single target, I could get just about an equal benefit from one of the other glyphs, but any multi-target fights, the serpent glyph comes out far ahead.

By: Tinliin

Tinliin — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 17:12:28 +0000

This week I have bought Wodin necklace, Carapace of Forgotten Kings and I have crafted myself the Ashen pants (I have the boots already). So, I have left T9 bonuses behind, my only low (under 245ilvl) pieces being Greatness trinket and T9 gloves.

Tweaking the talent points in femaledwarf.com, I have found that, beside those recommended here, the best choices for me in MM tree are now 1 point on Improved Hunter Mark and only 2 on Improved SrS. So, Mark glyph seem the best way to follow…

By: Tinliin

Tinliin — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:46:48 +0000

I really appreciate your work here, Rip, but some of the Glyphs recommendations are pure theoretical. I am sure you tested a lot on femaledwarf.com spreadsheets and dummies, but both assume the best case for shooting practice: the stupid boss that wait for you to eat his life.

My GS score is 5600 and I do usually around 6K DPS on ICC10. I have tested too on femaledwarf.com and it say the SS glyph is better for me than Mark, SrS or Hawk, but ICCs not filled with Patchwerk clones…

In practice, all the bosses from ICC require a lot of movement and target switching. So, that Steady Shot glyph is almost useless, as I find myself rarely having the time to SS the boss between adds waves or bone storms or whatever trick Blizz have put on them…

SrS glyph may be the first alternative, but only if you still have 2pT9 bonus. If not, is only a matter of laziness in reapplying SrS.

Hawk glyph, which Frostheim recommend us, fail for the same movement reasons. But he play SV only on Saurfang to help him beat the BBs and that article was wrote a year ago, with different kind of boss fights…

So, I have decided to go with Mark glyph instead of SS one, as it will be constant on the boss and it will increase the DPS of other ranged raiders too. This will be the only sure thing in those fights filled with madness…

Aimed glyph, hmmm… Until now, AimedS was off from my SV spec, as MultiS have helped my DPS better into the HCs. But as I have started to raid ICC10 weekly (only by PUGing, not being into a raiding guild), I have realized that I may have more use of another instant shot on the move, than the static MultiS. So, those 2 more sec may prove a greater DPS increase, as you will find yourself using mostly ExS and AS against adds or while running around the boss.

So, apart from KS and ExS glyphs, I think the best choices for SV raiders in ICC are Mark or Aimed glyphs. I will say again, that for those with 2pT9, SrS may be better, but this must be tested on real fights, not on idealistic spreadsheets…

Tinliin, Moonglade EU

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Tue, 05 Jan 2010 00:00:51 +0000

I’m going to write up a post addressing this- look back for it soon.

By: Wysteri

Wysteri — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 23:53:33 +0000

What Hunterbabe is describing is exactly my situation. I’m doing 3200 combined dps on the elite boss training dummy, but can’t get more than 2500-2800 in raid. I was doing better as a BM.
I’ve been practiceing the SV shot rotation. My gear score is 14500. and I’m fully gemmed and enchanted.

What’s up? What do I need to do differently?

By: hunterbabe

hunterbabe — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:08:25 +0000

ok i have a problem. my hunter is in almost full epic gear from fos pos and hor dungeons. all epic gems and enchants. gear score just about 5000 my spec is sv and its the same as u have listed same glyphs shot rotations everything. best is the same been like this for awhile now but my DPS is only 2500-3500 WTH am i doing wrong? im embarassed to do raids with my guild because of my dps i did the dps analyzer after uploading my charater and i should be putting out almost 5k……what am i doin wrong?

By: hunterbabe

hunterbabe — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:07:50 +0000

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 12:05:00 +0000

Probably. If not because the 4t9 is a little underwhelming and 2t9 is quite good, because the t9 pieces have much better stats.

By: Maikoh

Maikoh — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 04:45:27 +0000

Need advice im a surv hunter with 4 piece t8 is it worth it to drop 4 piece set bonus for the 2-piece t9 bonus serpant sting crits.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:35:41 +0000

You have to make a judgment call. The calculators and spreadsheets are bad at modeling specific raid comps’ mana profiles. My gut feel is that if the theoretical DPS in an unlimited mana situation is close, then take replenishment. It brings raid utility too.

By: Rowenna

Rowenna — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 18:24:44 +0000

need some advice here:

currently i have the points in hunting party since i don’t do 25 mans often and need the mana regen. even with it i occasionally run out during longer boss fights and am forced to pot/go into viper for a tad.

my question is, even with that issue is it worth speccing into imp stings and getting the glyph once i get the 2 piece tier 9? i bought the chest already and am 20 badges from the helm, but if it’s not going to be worth it to change spec/glyphs if i’m going into viper more than already, should i just stay as is?

By: Diaxx

Diaxx — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 23:19:02 +0000

Good point, since results are somewhat gear and ability dependent. For me, 2-18-51 was best, for you it might be different. When I’m raiding, I’ve always got femaledwarf.com up in case loot drops. Only want to spend DKP if gear is really an upgrade for *me*, not just cause everyone ooos and ahhhhs.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:18:34 +0000

I’d suggest using the DPS calculator at http://www.femaledwarf.com and seeing which one has the higher maximum DPS.

By: Diaxx

Diaxx — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:57:26 +0000

I’m using a 2-18-51. The DPS website and real game experience show the 2 points in IAotH pay off. In MM, I skilled Arcane and Aimed completely. And yes, if you spec this way, swap the glyph. Good luck.

By: Lethal

Lethal — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:47:44 +0000

i have the spec 6-14-51 with glyphs: exp shot, kill shot, steadyshot.

im thinking to change to: 0-20-51 and change steadyshot for serpentsting glyph. good idea?

By: Zeherah

Zeherah — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 04:32:30 +0000

Just one comment on the serpent sting versus steady shot glyph debate. Steady shot sometimes comes out a bit higher dps in the spreadsheet, but steady shot is also the most likely shot to be reduced in damage on movement fights. Serpent sting glyph saves a GCD periodically that can be spent on whatever’s up, so it’s a bit more flexible in its usefulness. Additionally it saves mana (since serpent sting is one of our most expensive shots), so if you tend to run mana tight this is also a consideration. So check what the damage gap is between the glyphs for you and then make a judgement call, keeping that all in mind.

By: Espy

Espy — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 13:36:20 +0000

I would have to agree with you (2pc tier 8 2pc tier 9). I took out the 2 points in Hunting Party and 1 point in Aimed Shot to put 3 points in Improved Stings and boy what a huge DPS increase. In my shot rotation, I would replace Aimed Shot with Multi Shot.

By: Eidotrope

Eidotrope — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 03:59:54 +0000

Yeah, you’re right, dps-wise it looks like it’s better to drop other talents instead.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 03:19:02 +0000

Resourcefulness is good, but check the DPS loss for taking a single point out- with the new high proc rate of lock and load and the 22 second cooldown, the results may surprise you.

By: Eidotrope

Eidotrope — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:29:07 +0000

Thanks for updating this Euripides.

I can confirm (well, at least from throwing my gear through the spreadsheet) that if you have them the tier 8 and 9 2-piece set bonuses make Improved Stings a better dump talent than Hunting Party or IAotH.

I’m currently having trouble with whether or not I should take points out of Resourcefulness (as you’ve done for a different reason) to max out Improved Stings. I’d prefer to keep one point in Hunting Party since I raid 10-mans so much.

By: euripidesoutdps

euripidesoutdps — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:10:55 +0000

I forgot about the stings- as far as I know though, you need the two piece T9 bonus for them to be worth it. I’ll go and edit the post :)

By: Diaxx

Diaxx — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 13:45:48 +0000

After some modeling on the spreadsheet combined with real life testing, I find talent points are better spent a different way for SV hunters.

Rather than spending 6 points in Hunting Party and Thrill of the Points, try a few in Improved AoH and Improved Stings. Combined with the SSting glyph, you should see a boost in DPS. There was a good discussion on this topic some time ago on EJ. The 30% boost in Sting, longer uptime, and better attack speed seem to pay off more than 3% AGI.

Your Glyph choices make sense until you respec as suggested, then swap SShot for SSting.